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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Got it...
  
No Crappy 'Contour' label, Cool Factory picture... but it do specify:
"Designed in USA * Made in Korea * Final Assembly and Quality Inspection in New Hartford, CT, USA"
Well... I will let y'all enjoy the beauty of this geetar while I compose all my complains and concerns.
I also wanna play with it a bit more before I talk bad about it... :D |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | looks kinda sunbursty... |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | It's a really nice box too. Beats having to have a case to carry it around in. |
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Location: closely held secret | Is it just the lighting or does the grain difference in the top halves really show that much? |
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Location: closely held secret | Forget the case, Beal... I don't see any pizza boxes. Some dealers just cut corners everywhere. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Complains and Concern... First! The action is about 1/8" at the 12th fret!
My Sweet T had 3 huge shim under that saddle and I had to take two out... Others have complained about this... I this the new standard?
[My 2058T was just fine I might add]
I can change the string height... But here are two real concerns...
I hope that y'all can see this, but there is a little triangular chip or dent near the binding! It is not Right next to the binding, there is 0.5mm between the bowl and the white binding.
Can y'all see what I'm talking about?
  
Also there is glue slop at the sound-hole...
So those are my concerns... And I need advice from those who are older (mentally), wiser, and more experienced with this kinda stuff.
I will wait patiently and play with my new toy. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by The Wabbit Formerly Known As Waskel:
Is it just the lighting or does the grain difference in the top halves really show that much?   
You can definitely see the line, and yes it is different depending on the light.
The wood IS book-matched, and it is pretty tight. But is is only grade A, and you can see the wet and dry years. But the grain is not as loose as someone in an online review made it sound. It is wood and it is all different.
I'm more concerned about the chip and the glue...
(And it came in another box... But no pizza boxes or beer crates! :p )
They also sent me a "Pledge Multi-Suface Wipe" and a coupon, but I'm not sure if I would use it. |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | OMA, the way I figure it, you got a cheap guitar at an inexpensive price. On an expensive all USA model, these things wouldn't be acceptable, but hey, you paid $309 including shipping!!
I'm starting to feel that I'd know my way around if I ever visited your apartment. |
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| I'm wondering how the bowls are inspected and they miss that chip, and how the 'glue slop' got past final inspection? I guess all that happened before it got to the New Hartford. FWIW it would
look better without the rossette. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | The chip wouldn't bother me since I can't even see it (is it in the bowl?), and at the first string change, I'd buff out the extra glue. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | The chip is directly up from the strap button, in the bowl, directly at the binding.
As to the glue... I thought that they got the neck and the body from Korea, and set the neck in New Hartford. ("Hah-fudd") But I could be mistaken. (I have been before)
Yeah, I have paid this much and more for a Used Guitar...
But it wasn't NEW with the expectations that come with a new instrument!
Now I am struggling with the idea of removing some shims. I hate to remove and trash new strings!
And Richard... I live is a one-room studio apartment...
With the exception of my Bathroom, if you've seen my photos you Have seen my whole apartment! :cool: |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Have MF send ya another one. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Iffy... That's kinda what I was asking... Waiting on a consensus.
BTW-- I do sound Nice! |
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Location: Scotland | $309? I spent that kinda money on a bag to carry my cables and assorted gig stuff. My strings bill for a year is way more than that, even at wholesale prices. So there's a few minor cosmetic or set-up issues on an entry-level guitar that you got cheap. So what?
I bought one of these from Al a few months ago for one of my students. I was very pleasantly surprised at the sound and build quality, and once I'd tweaked the set-up it played great.
Part of the reason these things are affordable is that they don't go through the same manufacturing and quality control standards as USA-built guitars. If the the guitar feels, plays and sounds OK I'd be perfectly happy. Because, a few minor blemishes aside, 300 bucks doesn't buy you much these days in terms of a guitar you could actually go out and earn a living with.
Yeah, you could have MF send you another one, that's your statutory right. But is it really worth it? What if the next one doesn't sound as good, or has a different tiny cosmetic fault? $300 hundred bucks for a guitar, where the pickup and electonics would cost you over $200 if you ordered them from a dealer as replacements...... lets have a little perspective here. |
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| Arthur, I'd expect better from a brand-new guitar. With a used guitar you might expect some battle scars, unless it's offered up as "mint." But a new guitar should be just that, mint. That glue residue is inexcusable. The ding in the bowl is kinda hard to see in the pics, but the point is that you see it, and if you're bothered by it (as I would be in your shoes), I'd contact the shop you bought from, explain (nicely) your disappointment, and ask for an exchange. Just my opinion.
Edit - Paul I was typing this as you posted. I disagree that this being an entry level guitar that you should be happy with sloppy build quality. Yes, the materials aren't top grade, and the level of QC won't be as high as with a higher-end. But by way of analogy, if I buy a brand new Civic I don't expect that the appointments will be to the same standards as an Accord, but I also don't expect that the Civic's doors won't close properly, or that the headliner will be sagging. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | My daughter bought her first guitar, an Ibanez, from MF. One of the box staples punched right into the back. I told her she should have bought an Ovation. She sent it back. The second one appeared perfect until I bought her an amp for Christmas. The preamp didn't work. Third time and almost a year later she got a guitar that didn't have issues. More headache than it was worth. The real killer was that through all this I visited my first Guitar Center, was introduced to internet guitar stores, discovered ebay and found this site. It's cost thousands of dollars in time and purchases, all because of that staple. (Any similarity to "for want of a nail . . ." is purely coincidental.) |
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Location: South of most, North of few | I'll go with Paul on this one. Waddaya want for nuttin, a rrrrrruuuuubberrrr biscuit? |
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Location: Scotland | Serge, that was spoken like someone who has zero experience of offshore guitar manufacturing and the econonmics of instrument wholesaleing and distribution. The build quality is not "sloppy" It's within accept able tolerances for the price-point. The "faults" are minor cosmetic issues and despite them the guitar remains absolutely fit for the purpose intended.
If you want USA quality pay the money (and I know you have many fine guitars, so do not take this as a personal attack) But anyone you buys relatively inexpensive imported guitars and expects totally consistent quality, comparable to domestic production, is kidding themselves. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Good Points, Paul. One thing with me is that they might run outta sunboists...
They have one today, but in ten days they might not. Plus there might be something else wrong with it...
My previous experience with MF is I bought a Generic SG and had to send it back TWICE.
Then I sold the third one to my buddy for cost, cuz MF didn't have anymore.
Once I decide to lower the saddle and tweak the truss-rod, I will basically own it.
So, unless the OFC electoral college decides that I should return it...
This is why I ask these questions... Cuz I'm so damn indecisive!
[Since y'all were typing while I was typing...
The 'Price Point'? MSRP is $849... and $310 is 2/3 of my month's rent... I'm Poor! :( ] |
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| No offense taken, Paul. You're absolutely right I'm unfamiliar with those business issues.
Shoddy workmanship just happens to be a personal bugbear to me. I feel that people in general are too complacent about accepting poorly designed or executed anything. I'm just a PITA that way :D |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | g8r... When Toyota moved to America, American advisers told them that they didn't need to paint the whole bumper since nobody saw the back.
Alot of imported items were of better quality until we taught the about the 'Acceptable Levels' of quality.
American auto makers started plastic bumpers.
Remember the Original Toyota Land Cruiser? Put today's Hummer to shame.
I Love Capitalism!
Remember... The selling point for the new Ultra is that you got American Quality for a lower price! |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Arthur, if you got a solid topped Ovation that was perfect for $309, would you ever buy a new one built entirely in the USA. You got a great deal. I'll play it for you over Thanksgiving and then you'll realize how good it sounds . . . when you play it. |
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Location: Jet City | What's the saying? If it seems like too good of a deal?
If I'm going to get imperfection for my money, I'd rather spend $300 on an old early 80's A-braced Legend with a couple finish cracks. Heck I'd prolly even get a case! |
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Location: Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN | OMA, my experience with the 2178 that I ordered has been completely different.
I got mine today ($377 total from MF) and couldn't be happier. The quality is actually better than I had expected. I am used to my Fender Highway One and Gibson Faded Les Paul (both "low-end" USA offerings). Those guitars clearly have cut corners to meet a certain price-point.
The Ovation is entirely different and one would be hard pressed to tell a discernible difference between this and a XX78.
Inlaid epaulets, perfect finish and great binding! Action is quite high but I too will just remove a shim or two.
In all, I am VERY satisfied and feel like I really found a great deal on a quality guitar. There is nothing in this price range that would even come close.
EDIT: Pictures to follow. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | There are "some mail-order companies" who sell seconds as first quality merchandise. I won't list any names here, but it is good to be aware that there are "some mail-order companies" that sell things that they KNOW are defective, because a certain percentage of the people won't bother to send them back. They make enough money on these second quality and defective items, that it is apparently worth the hassle of taking back the returns they DO get. (Besides, they just re-sell to other unsuspecting customers.) I have also found that with "some mail-order companies", when you return an item, YOU have to pay the shipping.
That being said, a little nail polish on that ding in the bowl should cover it up just fine. And you DON'T have to take the strings off to get at the shims. Just loosen them a LOT, get a pair of needelenose and pull that saddle right out of there. That's the way we did it at the factory, and that's the way I do it here at the shop.
If the guitar sounds good, AND if it doesn't buzz when you take the shims out, I would keep it if I were you. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Don't misunderstand me... This is a great sounding guitar.
And I am sure that your 2178 is just fine. I am sure most 2171 don't have a chip and glue smears.
Like I said, I gotta buck-up and pull some shims out from under the saddle...
But I so Hate wasting new factory strings.
I have been playing it, and listening to the news, and playing on the computer... (multi-tasking)
But I am concerned about that chip, which was the first thing that I saw when pulling it outta the foamy cellophane bag. Then the glue.
I will look inside to see if that chip goes all the way through while I am in there.
If it goes all the way through, I will have to send it back.
If it doesn't go all the way through, but causes a problem later, I will use the warranty.
But like some folks are saying...
You should not be able to find obvious defect right outta the box!
I don't care Who makes it!
I got two inspection hang-tags with illegible signatures on them... Somebody should have seen this.
And like Damon said... I have paid more for Ovations with cracks in them.
But I knew it had a crack when I bought it.
But some of you are saying that I should be happy...
This is not a Blem, FRG or 2nd. It is not Used.
Yes, it is a $310 guitar... But it is a NEW OVATION!
:rolleyes: Excuse me... I'm ranting and rambling now... better hit the button. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by CanterburyStrings:
That being said, a little nail polish on that ding in the bowl should cover it up just fine. And you DON'T have to take the strings off to get at the shims. Just loosen them a LOT, get a pair of needelenose and pull that saddle right out of there. That's the way we did it at the factory, and that's the way I do it here at the shop.
If the guitar sounds good, AND if it doesn't buzz when you take the shims out, I would keep it if I were you. Thank You... The voice of sanity! :D
After I just got done ranting for 500 words.
[Calm down, Arthur... Take a nice slow calming breath] |
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Location: Tennessee | Mine is supposed to show up tomorrow ... I'll let ya'll know if OMA's is a one-off or if it's systemic. |
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Location: Jet City | OMA, I put a capo on the 12th fret and pull all the string's slack to the bridge side when loosening strings. Seems to work better for me when I'm pulling out the bridge.
Does that make sense? |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Thank You Damon... I wish I had read that first.
I just loosen the strings, lifted the saddle with tape-covered needle-nosed pliers, propped-it up with a pick and dumped the shim out....
Big thick ramped piece of plastic. Only one.
It's alot better, but still ain't great.
I cannot do the 'two-pennies' trick. (Higher than that)
So definitely cannot put two dimes under there.
I will play it awhile and decide what I am gonna do...
But one thing I know that I will do...
I will remember that capo at the 12th fret trick.
(maybe the 10th fret with my Kyser :D ) |
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Location: seattle | Originally posted by The Wabbit Formerly Known As Waskel:
Is it just the lighting or does the grain difference in the top halves really show that much? cuase by grain 'run out' - i've seen some very pricey guitars with just as much as this one |
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Location: seattle | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
Iffy... That's kinda what I was asking... Waiting on a consensus.
BTW-- I do sound Nice! If you send it back you run the very real risk of getting a cosmetically good one that sounds bad (tinny trebbles, no mids, no bass etc) if it sounds good, you got a great deal!!! and when you do eventually ding it, no biggie :) |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by g8r:
I feel that people in general are too complacent about accepting poorly designed or executed anything. I'm just a PITA that way Serge, you and I are in the same club re complacency. As noted, this git was over $800 MSRP. They're now at $399. So what? Defects are not acceptable regardless of the price if the item is new.
Yes, the wood may not be AAAA spruce, has a nylon nut/saddle, etc., ergo, lower price. But defects? Not fer me...
Mine is due in today and it had best be in grand condition. Otherwise, back it goes...
>
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Location: Cork, Ireland | Would this be similar to a CU147 ?
http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/CU147.htm
I posted before about one on sale here in Cork for about €1000 about US$1,261.84 !!! |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Last night I finally unpacked the 2171 and I must say that it's not an $800 (MSRP). But , it's 'bout the best $320 (had to chip in $10 for shipping) I've spent on a git, especially since it's new. It's definitely in the $500-600 quality range.
My description matches OMA's except for his two issues. I have none. The 'equator' is predominant, but the top is tight. The sunburst is not quite the Ovation SB of the past. It is more like some Gibbies I've seen, but attractive nonetheless.
The 'girlie neck' is smooth and fast. The 14th fret cut-away gives excellent access above the 12th. I haven't spent much time up there, but now it'll be a lot easier!
Bottom line: sweet guitar for a hellava price! :D |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Oh, one more observation: the walnut bridge does look thirsty. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by 2ifbyC:
Oh, one more observation: the walnut bridge does look thirsty. Get out the Baby Laxative. :D
Where's the pics? I realize that it probably looks just like mine, but pics anyway.
BTW- Sent mine back, replacement scheduled to arrive Tuesday. |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
Where's the pics? OMA,
These crutches are really hobbling my attempts to take some pics. In fact I have three gits that are awaiting my 'Iffy's Beauty Treatment' prior to their debut on the OFC. Hopefully in the near future... |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | I vote with Alison. |
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Location: Tennessee | I unpacked mine yesterday as well. Maybe my expectations were low, but this delivers on all accounts ... especially given the price point and what we should expect for a mid-range guitar. I figure this is in the same league as other asian made guitars so that's what I'm comparing it against in general.
Ditto on the sunburst. Mine has got a red band that popped out at me right away, but it's growing on me. The paint job itself is actually pretty good ... consistent color and fade and all three colors look good. The body binding is done really well ... very tight.
This shot above of the 2171 on my bench shows the red pretty well. In other pictures, it's not as evident and looks more like a standard three color sunburst.
The bridge on mine is really nicely figured, and it is some species of rosewood (not walnut), and also needs some oil. :) But I think it will come in nicely. It is perfectly machined.
Rosette is nicely done and elegantly understated. Appears to be real MOP. The grain of the solid top actually shows through fairly well and it's not a bad piece of wood. The top seam is fairly obvious, but otherwise the two pieces match up nicely in grain and color.
More in the next post ... I can't post any more pictures in this one. |
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Location: Tennessee | Review continued ...
The fretboard is rosewood species and has some figure to it. The neck binding is well done and only one corner could use a little filing, but that is a total nitpick. The inlays are typical Korean fauxMOP (mother of plastic) that you are familiar with if you have any Epiphone or Celebrity guitars. But very tightly machined ... they look perfect. Every one of them ... the wonders of computer controlled manufacturing.
The guitar plays well all the way up the neck with no fret buzzing at all. The frets themselves are very consistent and nary a one out of place. The action is a little high but not unplayable in the least. I will tweak the Truss rod and pull a shim when I change the strings. BTW, note that the truss rod is accessed from the soundhole and there is no adjustment at the peghead.
Speaking of the peghead, it is a classic ovation look of a gloass black with chrome ovation logo and chrome ovation-branded tuners. The tuners are what you should expect on a $500 guitar, but they are holding the tune and feel tight. Overall, this headstock definitely has the US-made look. And notice also the five piece neck.
The guitar plays like an Ovation. If you like the quintessential Ovation neck, this one has got it. Nearly identical in feel to the 2007BCS (more on that whole thing later), more D shaped than V shaped but real fast. Gloss finish has a great feel to it. This is a five piece neck, but it's clear the quality of the wood is a notch or two down from what we expect on New Hartford guitars ... but it's good not crappy. The back of the headstock is beautiful in the same way the typical Ovation looks.
I was a tad disappointed in the way the guitar sounded when I first pulled it out. Just sounded tight and lacking in bass response. The top seemed harsh. It took a couple of rounds to get it in tune and the strings seemed brand new. Kudos on the tuner on the OP-Pro ... reall nice and easy to see and read dead on to a Wittner I have. But all of a sudden the sound started to come in. I guess the guitar just hadn;t been played at all. I ended up playing it for several hours on an off, and damn if the bass didn't come in and the top smoothed out a whole bunch. This morning I played it again and it sounds much better. We'll see after it get a whole lot more play.
So here's a pic of it getting played. This is a great deal for $310. It's worth over $500 in the consumer market based on the guitars I've played out there, maybe more. The quality of the construction is real good. And of course, there is the design. ;)
So how can you tell the difference between these and the ones 100% made in the US? I figured out one main way. More on the subject in another post. |
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Location: Tennessee | Just for fun, I also put it next to the 2007BCS to let you'll see how the two guitars macth up.
Wow. Pretty close, huh? What does the average consumer see? Probably not a lot of difference. But there is one thing that is really different between the guitars (aside from wood quality). And now that I think about it, it is exactly the same thing that was different between my USA-made Ultra and the Korean-made Ultra my twin sister bought. In exactly the same way. Bowl paint! Check it out.
There is a huge difference in the texture bewteen the 2007BCS (top) and the 2171 (bottom).
So there you go. |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | stone,
Super review! 
You did remind me 'bout the inlaid rosette. Very nicely done.
I as you, though the git was 'tinny' last night. But by this evening, it has really warmed up. I'm quite pleased with the sound now. ovationluver made the same comment 'bout a new 2178.
BTW, your 'equator' in your pics is not nearly as obvious as mine. It's still a keeper... |
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2171 Reviews, Raves & Complains... (advice?)