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Location: Havertown, PA | OK, trying to pinpoint year of manufacturer. Yea, I know, I may be a bit anal, so here goes.
According to "O"'s Cracking the code, ( and I'm not sure just how accurate) but it states in the four code series that an Ultra 1517 is a:
Ultra Electric
Std bowl
and the fourth digit being a 7 states something about a "Glen Campbell Artist Balladeer".
What would this mean if it's an Ultra. Style?
Reason is, is that the six digit series ( serial numbers) has my number ( 322220 ) potentially listed as either an '84 if it's considered a Balladeer or possibly an '85 since it's a USA Ultra. Looks like late '85 or '86 when Ultra's may have gone the way of ROK. Thoughts anyone?
Ovation , when asked, seems to just refer you back to the code page. Thanks |
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Location: Havertown, PA | Looking over the pricing guide in the reference part of this board, it seems to denote the 1517 as an Ultra Deluxe. I assume the 7 - "Glen Campbell Artist Balladeer" gave the Ultra this deluxe style recognition? |
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Location: SoCal | Nope. Sorry to say, but the model code does not apply to guitar built overseas. They have their own code, but nobody (and I'm not being sarcastic or mean here) knows what it is. The code on the Ovation website and on this site only applies to USA built Ovations.
See, another serious answer. Since you're still posting questions, I assume that either you're persistant in wanting answers, or you've decided to join the group, nonsense and all. Welcome.
What you might consider doing, and I've suggested this to people in the past and still do it myself occassionally, is pick an open afternoon or evening, make a margarita, and spend a few hours going thru the archives of posts. You'll find info similar to what I posted above, but also a ton of fun reading on Ovations. It's well worth the time. |
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Location: Havertown, PA | Hey Paul;
Sorry to say, but my Ultra is suppose to be made in the USA. Blue Oval Ultra label says so. Is this not necessarily true?
According to my e-mail response from info@ovation.com, they confirm. Thoughts? |
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Location: Minden, Nebraska | I have seen quite a few Ultra models, but never one made in the USA. Yours reminds me of a frequent saying from my professor of Greek: "Greek is a language of rules. One of the rules is that rules have exceptions." |
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Location: Havertown, PA | Good, now were getting somewhere. I've gotten strange answers before when I've asked this question. Everyone assumes that since it's an Ultra it made on ROK. I've sent another e-mail to "O", asking them again, hoping for a little clarification. I guess this could be an early model? C'mon, anyone with some thoughts on this?? |
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Location: SoCal | Ok, I've got the 1985 catalog in front of me. The Ultra has a laminated spruce top, mahogany neck and rosewood fingerboard. It's got a stacked volume/tone control and FET preamp.
The book The History of Ovation doesn't mention the Ultra's but states that the Applause and Celebrity lines were moved overseas in 1984. I'm assuming that the Applause guitars became the Ultra's but I don't know for certain.
By 1991 (per the catalog from that year), the Ultras were built overseas.
Mfinger1 (which finger by the way?) you have to realize that for years, it was very very difficult to state with certainty, when and where a guitar was built. I've got a 1967/68 Deluxe Balladeer that was built in one of those two years, but according to the serial number code, could be either year. If your Ultra has a made in USA label, then it was probably built in the early 80's, like 82 or 83.
Question, does it have an aluminium neck or a mahogany neck? in the 1983 catalog, they are listed as aluminum. By 1985, it was mahogany.
But understand that the model number on your guitar does not correspond to the model numbers in the "crack the code" lists. The non electric version of your guitar was model number 1511 (per the catalog), and that doesn't make it more like a Balladeer. It just means that the code doesn't apply.
The problem you face is that as anal as you want to be about this, you're never going to find all the answers. We've all been a bit anal about our guitars. If we weren't, this board wouldn't exist (well, it would, but it would just have Al and Miles on it). But there aren't always good answers to every question.
Again, go back thru the archives. There's probably info there on this subject that I've missed. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | OK, maybe I'm just askew from the rest of the world, but I thought 1) Ultra's were made in the USA and 2) the 1517 is the "Ultra" equivilent to the 1617 Legend, just uses lesser grade top and neck woods. Isn't that correct?
I've never owned an Ultra, so I only speak from 2nd hand knowledge. As far as the 4th digit 7 meaning "Glen Campbell Artist Balladeer", that's not correct. xx17 are Legends or Ultras. xx27 are Glen Campbell Artists. Am I totally wrong here. |
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Location: NJ | When I first got mine, I posted about it (Do a SEARCH on "Ultra" and type in my number "116").
Anyway the question arose over neck material. Since mine was black, I wasn't sure if it was wood or alu/foam. cwk2 said that the change happened in '83:
"cwk2
Member
Member # 7
posted February 12, 2003 07:48 PM
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Not Phoam.
If it says made in Kimchi it's not foam.
the foam machine has been history since 1983
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W-2" |
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Location: Havertown, PA | Hey Paul, thanks for a little more info. At this point it may be the middle finger.
Yes your specs are correct. Now I may be more confused. It has a mahogany neck with sound hole accessable trus. The serial # 322220, says either '84 or '85. Are you saying that because it's an Ultra ( or Ultra Deluxe ) that the codes may not apply even though it was suppose to have been built in the USA and the codes are suppose to apply to USA built models? When were Ultraa first manufactured?
The "O" website on discontinued models, has a little blurb for the 1517 from their '86 manual that says the Ultra was Korean made at that point.
If anyone can shed more light on this, please feel free. I've sent this question to "O" in hope of shedding some light on the issue. You know, it's really not a "big" deal, but damn it, I'd like to know why the discrepencies!! Maybe Kaman wanted buyers to think it was American made?? Could it be a cover up?? Hah..hah..! |
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Location: Yucaipa, California | My wife and I just went to the Nixon Presidential Library in Yorba Linda.... I listened to the Watergate Tapes and, curiously, there was one that went: ".....the Ultras are going to be made in..." "SHHHH! be quiet!!!!..." .........18 minutes of blank tape.... :eek: |
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Location: Fayetteville, NC | The truth is Out There....Somewhere........ :cool: |
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Location: Warrenton, Virginia | M finger 1
Tenacity is a good thing...but maybe now consider what Moody suggested and read archives of past posts on this subject, as well as wait for the response from Ovation re your inquiry.
For what it's worth, Charlie Kaman was a good guy.....Even tho the Ovation guitar was a remarkable contribution to American society & the world as a whole; Kaman's defense contributions were even more substantial.....and they continue to be. Don't think the Kaman company have in the past or in the future tolerate anything other than ethical practices.
Sounds like you like your "Ultra"...plays well etc. For me that has always been the most important thing......and if you only spent a meeger sum for it...then you are way ahead of the game whether made in USA or bum Fxxx. |
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Location: Havertown, PA | Sam;
I was kidding about a conspiracy. You would just think that they'd kept better records?? Who knows. I have perused the postings, with some interesting results. Some belive the ultra to have legend characteristics.?!?
Your absolutely right, I'm well ahead of the game, trading a Woolworth Epiphone Bird of Paridise repro ( $15 in '82 new ) for $75 on a $185 price tag. Basically this baby ran a tad over a $100. I'd just like to know!!
Mike |
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Location: Scotland | The USA made Ultras were pretty shortlived. They evolved from the Matrix guitars and were pretty similar, with the same aluminium/foam neck but a rosewood re-frettable fingerboard and a headstock which looked more like a regular Ovaton head rather than the plastic overlay of the Matrix. The original Model numbers for USA-made Ultras were 1311 )non-electric) & 1511 (electric) To confuse matters at some point the Ultra was known as the Balladeer Special but was essentially the same guitar. Ovation then got out of trying to produce affordable entry-level USA-made guitars and Ultra production went offshore. Models 1312, 1512, 1517, 1315, 1515, 1527 & 1528 all refer to imports. That list may not be complete. Also, by the mid-80's the original 4-digit model code had turned to crap. The other giveaway, apart from the model number is, if your Ultra has an adjustable truss-rod (accessible through the soundhole) it's definately of Korean origin, the original Ali/foam necks were non-adjustable. |
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Location: Havertown, PA | but Paul, my 1517 has a made in USA blue oval label. |
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Location: Warrenton, Virginia | Mike
roger that. respect your point.
I believe you have come to the right place to find your answers...and I believe you will be a great member of the group.
I have owned ovations since 68/69....I don't know as much about them as some of the guys on this site.
I have learned a lot more by listening to them.
guys like....
moody/cliff/cwk2/standingovation/hiz/Al/Miles/Temp/Steve/Tony on and on....they can speak for themselves but from my point of view, they know a lot about the ovation guitar...specs...history etc. I just tend to listen and learn....
I feel certain some of these guys..will figure out where your ovation came from. |
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Location: SoCal | Realizing that I'm not the Paul that you sent that to, I'll say this one last time.
Putting dates to Ovations can be a very difficult thing. People here (including myself) have given you the best info they have, including their time (and you probably can't afford my hourly). You can protest that you have a blue label all you want and continue to say "yeah, but...", but you'll get the same answers.
Now if you wanna give me the middle finger, feel free. But you'll have to get in line behind my 12 year old daughter. |
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Location: Scotland | The model numbers may have changed, that list was not meant to be exhaustive. As far as I'm aware all USA Ultras had a non-adjustable neck made of high-density foam over aluminum. If you can't find a truss-rod adjustment point at the end of the neck it'll be a foam neck and consequently made in the USA. If it has a neck-rod it's more than likely to be an import. |
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Location: Havertown, PA | Paul,
That wasn't directed at anyone, you just asked which finger. Just sort of out of frustration that came out. No hard feelings. I'm sure you all can concur. |
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Location: Havertown, PA | Paul T.,
My Ultra does have a mahogany neck, with a truss rod and says "Made in USA". I really don't mean to be a pain in the a__ here. Just trying to confirm. You guys have all been a great help. Maybe others will chime in. |
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Location: Scotland | Ok, it's possible I could be wrong and there were some USA-built Ultra's with conventional necks, or someone changed the label, or it was labelled wrongly at the factory (totally possible, I have a 72 1117 which has a foil label with a 1617 model code) Bill may know if there were any USA-made Ultras made with wood necks. |
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Location: Havertown, PA | Paul T.;
Appreciate the info, guess it could have been mislabeled at the factory, but I doubt if the label's been changed. This baby was hanging grungily at a local shop. All that was needed was a thorough cleaning. Funny thing, the shop keeper asked to buy it back shortly after selling it.?? Never asked why. he may have felt it was worth more. |
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Location: Havertown, PA | Just heard back from Ovation. Kim was her name, could be a Korean guy too?? Hmmm....
Anyway, response was this:
"Listen to your friends on the Ovation Fan Club. The Ultra was made here in the USA for a short while before production was moved offshore. Unfortunately, at that time no one had much interest in maintaining a serial number log, so records are very incomplete."
How about that! I guess you guys are all I have. Thanks for you time and info. If anyone else cares to respond, the info is always welcomed and appreciated. |
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Foam as a material for a guitar neck? This sounds bizarre; when I think of foam I think of a relatively soft material. Does anyone have an idea of the thinking behind this concept? |
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Location: Scotland | The foam was a hard high-density urethane foam which Ovation called Urelite. It looked & felt like mahogany, the aluminum frame gave it the necessary strength. The same foam/ali combination was used for the UK11 & Bluebird bodies & also the decorative headstock "carving" on early Adamas. Most people can't tell it's not wood. |
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Location: SoCal | Kim was "her" name? |
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Paul, so the idea behind the foam was that it was a less expensive substitute for a wood fingerboard? Hmmm...I wonder how long that material will last. |
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Location: NJ | No. It was a substitute for the NECK. The fingerboard was still wood. The idea was that the foam'd be lighter, more consistent & impervious to temp/humidity changes. |
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Location: Scotland | The original Medallion/Matrix/Applause necks had aluminium fingerboards with integral frets and a plastic headstock. Late model Matrix, which became the Ultra/Balladeer specials had conventional rosewood boards over the foam/ali neck |
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Location: Jersey near NYC | All of a sudden I feel pretty! |
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Location: Yucaipa, California | Now's my chance!
Kim,
What's the story about the 30th Anniversary Adamas!!!?????? When, What????? puhleeeeze? |
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Location: Fayetteville, NC | His Lips Are SEALED! Kinda like Al's at this point! |
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Location: Carle Place, NY | Here's a possible explanation of how a Korean made guitar has a "Made in USA" label. The plastic backs have been made by a USA mid-west company (Ohio?) for the last 30 years or so. These USA made backs were and still are shipped out east for construction of the guitar. Perhaps because the bowls were USA made, the factory originally put "Made in the USA" labels in the guitars but later realized that was inaccurate and changed the labels. If you look at a current Celebrity model, the bowl does have "Made in USA" imprinted in it above where the label goes. |
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Location: Havertown, PA | nah...don't buy it. "O" said certain early Ultras were made here before transfering. |
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Location: Havertown, PA | I think StandingOvation may be close here. There seems to have been two runs of Ultras. The original line from '84 - '91, and then a second run from '91 - '96. The later are definitely Korean. The first run probably started here then seems to have migrated to the far east in '85 -'86. And yes, the 1517 is the Ultra equivilent to the 1617 Legend, just uses lesser grade top and neck woods. |
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Location: Tennessee | Interesting thread. I have a USA-made Ultra 1311 from 1983. Blue label. Original foam neck (still on display in the house) was replaced when it bowed, with a mahogany neck from a 1312 Ultra that the owner swore said made in the USA on the label.
For mFinger1, The serial number likely makes it a USA model, made in 85. Especially with a blue label with a USA note. The brown bowl is right for the age if it is an 85. But the model number is strange ... I thought all the 15xx series were made overseas. Here's a question ... is the guitar a cutaway? Any electronics? |
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Location: Scotland | Originally posted by mfinger1:
nah...don't buy it. "O" said certain early Ultras were made here before transfering.
Which according to the available information had foam necks. |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | I was going to start a new string, but my subject fits so well here....I saw a NEW model 1577 made-in-Koh-ree-ah Ultra today at Marshall Music in Allen Park, MI, USA!!!!!
It is a tobacco sunburst -1 finish.....that was what caught my attention. I was hoping it was a 1771-1 non-LX made as a last hurrah before the LX completely takes over production. But the salesman got it down for me(all the Os were in the rafters....guitar shops don't have any other place to put them, I guess), and the label said "Ultra 1577" and "Made in Korea".
So the Ultra is back!!!!!
Roger |
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Location: Scotland | New-old-stock possibly, but not a "new" model for sure. |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Paul, I should have mentioned it...they got it in YESTERDAY...it still could be NOS, I suppose, but I saw no mention of a 1577 in the archive just now when I looked. And the bowl label looked pretty current.
Roger |
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Location: Scotland | There's a lot of guitars not mentioned in the archive, so that's hardly conclusive. Where does another offshore model fit price/feature-wise with the Celebs & Pinnacles? Why would a store have a new model before Summer NAMM which happens in a couple of weeks? Why no mention of a "new" Ultra (with an old model number) anywhere else. Just trying to make sense of it. |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | You are certainly right, there are many models not mentioned in the archive. It makes NO sense, I would agree. My thought was that maybe this is part of the changes hinted at on here in the non-USA Ovations.
I have to admit, I was totally SURPRISED when I looked in the bowl and read the label. Especially when the label looked so pristine and white and new. But let's call it NOS until another explanation comes up.
Roger |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | OK, lets see if we can get to the bottom of this.
I do believe that your ultra is USA made so don't worry about that.
Does the neck have an added on heel? The main body of the neck is one piece and the peghead is another piece that was glued on at an angle.
What I'm thinking is that there were some imported necks constructed as mentioned. USA bowl and made here, maybe Moosup or North Carolina?
No records kept because it was small production and it was the intro model (of the US made)at the time.
You're close on the years. Here's my suggestion
1. Do like Moody says, make the drink of your choice
2. Do the archives
3. If you find the year great, if not get as close as you can and then pick the year you want.
4. Good luck on finding the case
Finally, Kim isn't that pretty even though he says he feels that way. He's OK but just not pretty. However! if your guitar gets a problem he'll make it feel real pretty after the staff is through with it. |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | I did a search for "Ultra 1577" through Google and found this. It shows the guitar I saw today, NOS or whatever. It did have an OP-30.
http://www.washingtonmusic.com/inv.asp?d=guitars&sd=acoustic&b=Ovation&n=957
Roger |
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Location: Havertown, PA | stonebobbo;
No, it's not a cutaway, and it has the piezo pickup and FET preamp.
CWK2, Paul T.
It has a "one" piece mahogany neck / peghead, not foam, w/ivory bound rosewood fretboard.
Here is a quote from "O" website from the '86 Ultra manual:
"Our Ultra guitar series now offers you a whole range of Roundbacks. All models incorporate mahogany necks of a fully adjustable truss-rod design with rosewood fingerbaords and are available in acoustic and acoustic-electric versions. The acoustic-electrics are fitted with Ovation's patented piezoelectric pickup and FET preamp system: the industry standard! In addition, Ultra acoustic-electric guitars share many of the features of higher priced Ovation models such as a bound fingerbaord, abalone position markers, and preamp system with volume and tone controls."
The serial # is right, 322220, blue oval Ultra Series label says Made in USA. Does not say Hartford or Conneticut.
It seems to maybe be what I've read to be an early Ultra Deluxe, which had Legend characteristics.
I do think I'll take you guys up on that drink though. Could this be somewhat rare? Nah...
Thanks guys. |
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Location: Scotland | Roger, intersting that they've resurected the Ultra name. They've certainly kept quiet about it. I guess they'll be launched at summer NAMM.
Note that the spec says "final assembly in the USA" I guess that's were it fits into the line. A step above the Pinnacles but not quite 100% USA. |
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| cwk2 is correct in stating that the original series Ultras were USA made, and then again, why shouldn't he be correct? The Ultra carries both a USA label and USA serialization, thus the guitar in question would conform to the USA serial number code. Whether they were constructed of 100% USA components is another topic.
I have played and observed many USA Ultras, and they are excellent guitars for the extremely low price point at which they sell. Those that I have observed appeared to have a mahogany neck, obviously different from the original Matrix necks, but apparently the neck construction varied, depending on the year of manufacture.
Regarding the neck construction and material, while the 1984 and 1985 catalogs state that the neck is mahogany, the 1983 catalog which introduces the new model states:
"We'd like to introduce you to a brand new series of Ovation guitars: The Ultra Series. These economical Roundbacks feature the unique aluminum/Urelite neck construction found only on these guitars ... the back of the neck is formed of high density Urelite .. it is strong, smooth, and contoured for fast, easy hand movement. It has the look and feel of mahogany but is considerably more durable ..."
Does mfinger1 own a USA made Ultra? Undoubtably. Does this guitar have a Urelite neck, or a genuine mahogany neck? Only the person with the guitar actually in hand can make that determination. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | This guitar has one of those imported necks. In thinking about it since the last post I think they came from Saehan which was the factory that was making the applesause and celibicy models. This is a wood neck and it has a modified K-Bar in it, the same that would later be used in all the A&C models. Looking inside there should be a large piece of wood coming into the bowl under the fingerboard, giving it extra support.
The more I think about it this could have been made in North Carolina. The 83/84 time is right and that would also explain why there weren't any real records of where the serial numbners were used.
As far as rare, there were maybe a 1 to 2 thousand made. There was a plain and fancy is acoustic and in electric. After NC the production moved overseas. |
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Location: Havertown, PA | Hi, bobfrith , CWK2
Thank you so much for the time and effort. It's always nice to have the particulars on such a fine instrument. As the saying goes " they just don't make'em like they use to".
Bob states:
"The Ultra carries both a USA label and USA serialization, thus the guitar in question would conform to the USA serial number code. Whether they were constructed of 100% USA components is another topic."
OK, does this also hold true for the 4 digit model code? 1517, where the 7 claims to have something to do with a Glen Campbell Artist Balladeer? What's up with that? I guess these just didn't pertain.
Regarding the neck construction and material, it is a genuine mahogany neck. But I don't know about the K-bar. Looks like a std. truss bar, with Allen or hex adjustment from within the sound hole.
Is nice to hear that it had limited USA production. Makes it seem even more special.
Thanks again
Mike
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Location: Havertown, PA | Oh, can anyone forward a .pdf of the '83 / '84 owners manual for 1517?
mfinger1@yahoo.com
thanks |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | the 7 just meant the deluxe version of whatever model was being talked about. It is ONLY a Glen Campbell when it is xx27. The 1117 is the legend or deluxe balladeer (to go all the way back) and the balladeer was 1111. The GC really is just the deluxe version if the mid sized balladeer or artist as it was called (1121).
I doubt there was any literature made for the model, ads maybe but no owners manuals or any of that. If there is someone here would know. |
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Location: Havertown, PA | now this is what I call cracking the code! |
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| Mike,
Check you e-mail. I will forward a copy of the 1983, 1984 and 1985 catalogs.
Bob Frith |
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Location: Havertown, PA | hey Bob THANKS!! |
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Location: Havertown, PA | CWK2,
My correction, yes, the neck of my 1517 Ultra does have the K-bar.
Bobfrith,
Cat pics are great but a tad unclear. Would I be asking too much to have you resend from originals upon your return? |
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Location: Havertown, PA | Nice little "USA" Ultra 1312 for sale on ebay currently bidding for a whopping $5.50 !
Ebay |
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Cracking the "O" Code