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May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Well, the 1271 Viper showed up whilst I was sunning myself out in Nevada. Today, I've decided to start the rebuild process...mostly because the seller's description was, shall we say, erred on the side of optimism. To whit, the seller said:
YOU ARE BIDDING ON A NICE,BUT USED OVATION GUITAR IN OVATION CASE. THIS 6-STRING GUITAR HAS BEEN TAKEN CARE OF,I SEE ONLY A FEW SMALL SCRATCHES ON THE GUITAR. THIS GUITAR HAS A VERY PRETTY TWO TONE COLOR TO IT. IT HAS TWO KNOBS ON IT;A VOLUME,AND TONE. THE CASE IS AN OVATION,AND IT IS LIGHT BROWN. LOOK AT PICTURES FOR MORE DETAIL.
Now, I didn't expect mint, given the price, but 'nice, but used,' and 'only a few small scratches' are outright lies. There's a nice divot in the back of the neck (does not affect playability), three eraserhead sized pokes in the top, the strings were badly rusted, the metal rings around the pickups have oxidized, some of the frets have corrosion, I could go on. This seller was either nearly blind, or...well, anyway...I'd hate to see a guitar the seller *didn't* think was taken care of...but I digress.
No biggy, here's the questions:
I've pulled everything off, excep the tuners and the neck. I stripped the bridge down to parts and cleaned the accumulated junk and corrosion out, now I'm ready to put it back together. The mechanical side of me thinks I need to put a thin film of light oil/grease on the bottoms of the saddles to facilitate intonation. Yea/Nay?
The corrosion on the pickup rings bothers me...although it's a most wonderful shade of green. I'm thinking Barkeepers friend or some similar metal paste...yes or no?
There was a big ol' star washer stuck to the back of the neck pickup (magnetically, not permanently)...was this a design feature? :) Just kidding on this one. Actually, the pickups look like they're potted with something white, although I didn't pay much attention to consistency...did they do that to the pups on the Vipers? Just curious.
Oh and there's a sticker on the back of the pickuguard that says, 'Paul C's of San Francisco'...I wonder if that was the retailer for the geetar, or mebee they supplied the pick guards?
On the upside, the maple fretboard cap has a most interesting 'wave' to the grain. It start low on the 24th fret, then waves up over the 12th, then starts back down again...I swear it looks just like a wave. Crazy.
Anywho...where do I collect my bonus points for not swearing and only posting real O content? :) |
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January 2003
Posts: 1498
Location: San Bernardino, California | Ovation used RTV on their pickups for Viper & Preacher/Breadwinner style pickups.
The controls (switches, pots & output jack) should all have star washers on them. That's probably where that came from.
I normally don't lubricate the saddles, but I do lightly file the bottoms of them to insure that they're flat.
Some types of guitar polish work fairly well on cleaning metal. If you've corrosion then the chrome is probably pitted.
To ease intonation, loosen the strings while adjusting. |
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Joined:
May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Thanks, BruDev, for the information. I was really surprised that the control cavity and the route to the pups was foiled. Looks to me like O did a fantastic job with the solid bodies.
The controls all have star washers on them, I was just being silly about it being a design feature. I figured whoever built out the pickguard assembly must have had some loose ones laying on the bench and one just got stuck to the bottom of the pup. No biggy, I took it out, though.
I don't have any guitar polish, per se, so I think I'll just have to take my chances with the pickup corrosion. The metal outer rings definitely don't look like chrome, though, more like aluminum. |
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Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | Welcome to MY world.... As one who buys a lot of stuff on eBay, I am well accustomed to guitars coming with undisclosed 'issues'. It is nice, on occasion, to be pleasantly surprised and receive something in better than described condition. Oh, well... the risk goes with the turf.
There is a product called FLITZ, available at most music stores (used on brass instruments) and hardware stores. It is excellent for removing corrosion from metal parts that are rubbable. I have used it on metal pickup rings before. It won't restore a metal plating that has worn off, but it is great for removing oxidation. |
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Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Thanks, Paul, hadn't thought of that. The bridge is still awaiting reassembly, as I'd like to get the pup rings and frets cleaned up (some of the frets have corrosion, too). All in all, it's not in bad shape for the vintage...can't wait to get it all strung up and hear what it sounds like. |
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Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | OOOO steel wool will clean up those frets. Just don't go too postal on them. A nice buffing with steel wool will shine them up and smoothe them up, too. Rub with the grain of the fretboard. I tape off the pickups with masking tape when I do this for obvious reasons. |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | after you steel wool the neck take an old towel and buff them and the fingerboard. Will bring the shine back part way. Put a drop of 3 in 1 oil under each saddle if you feel the need. Steel wool the pickup housings lightly for some of that tarnish, or that flitz is good too. |
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Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Just remember that if your Viper has a maple fingerboard to mask it off before you use steel wool. |
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February 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: Warren,Pa. | I would stay away from Barkeepers' Friend. I had no Flitz available when I was working on my newly-acquired '76 Legend, so I cleaned up the gold Schallers with B.F. The acid in it does a good job, but it is slightly abrasive and now I have fine swirl marks all over the tuners. John <>{ |
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Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | John (yay, I'm not the only one!)-
Thanks for the tip on the BKF. Based on your, Paul, Paul and W2's recommendations, I was thinking of just going out and getting some superfine steel wool, a roll of duct tape (even though I already have two or three...you can never have enough!) and maybe some Flitz.
I have to admit, that tearing this guitar down and cleaning it up is rather fun. Maybe I'll take up a new hobby...guitar restoration. Yeah, that's it, buy up nasty old gits on fleaBay, clean them up, send digital pics to Gruhn, re-post on evilBay and profit!
Hey, now, I've seen worse business plans. :) |
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Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | Let me add about 30 cents worth.
Masking tape in leiu of Duct tape for the fret board. A dremel tool with a little buffing wheel will work for the frets. It will also burn any wooden or finished areas quickly.
I consider a restring session as a ritual and a way to aquaint with the instrument. A tear down sounds like an even better opportunity to bond and you'll be better suited to identify problems later because you are more familiar.
Stock up on Fret oil, silicone, 000 Steel wool and diapers (clean and well washed) for this time together.
Enjoy |
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May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | See, now I knew the duct tape was going to be too sticky. But, it's a maple cap on the fretboard, so I was thinkin'...if I use ductape, it'll get the fretboard all sticky, and that just won't do. So, I'll have to take the goo gone out and wipe the whole fretboard down...again...I love the smell of that stuff. And it'd give me an opportunity to get more gunk out of the fret/fretboard joint. :)
See, there's a madness to my method... |
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September 2004
Posts: 8
Location: Tujunga CA (LA) | When I clean frets I use the lime green light tack masking tape. Available everywhere. Works great! If I'm really working the frets with files. I'll sometimes use two layers. Be careful with the dremel tool as it can create too much heat an unseat some of the the frets! Everything will look great, but you migh encounter false tones and possible buzzing because the fret 'humps' in the center. The first step in fret removal is applying heat. After 0000 steel wool I use metal polish or 'swirl remover' car polish by hand. It creates a little mess, but makes the frest shine. Another tip I learned from an old timer is to burnish across the frets with an wrist-pin from an old car engine. It leaves a very fine line at the fret string/tangent actually strengthening the fret top. Makes them glassy smooth, and reduces wear.
I respectfully diagree with using silicone anywhere on a guitar becuase future finish repair and glue adhesion problems might arise.
Cheers. |
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Posts: 3005
Location: Las Cruces, NM | cruster
Sounds like some good advice from the OFC experts. I have a Viper and would agree with all I've heard here. I bought mine new in the 70's and have taken care of it. The only problem I have is cracking of the pick gaurd around the cable plug in, so take care not to trip over the cable when plugged in. Other than that, clean it up and enjoy, enjoy.
One other thing, don't sweat the scratches and dings, if you look at what some of the best players in the world play, you will see some of the most "used" guitars in the world. Just work on the parts that make the sound.
Bailey |
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January 2003
Posts: 1498
Location: San Bernardino, California | That 'Paul C. of San Francisco' might be Chandler. They make replacement pickguards.
http://www.chandlerguitars.com/ |
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May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Bru-
So, you think this is a replacement pickguard? It has some writing on the back of it (in pencil) with some initials and a couple number (SM 2480 #109 or something like that...I'd have to go look).
The scratches and dings don't really bother me that much, other than I was a bit surprised, based on the seller's description. A little wear just adds to the mojo...my Stratocopy is developing ruts in the maple fretboard and I happen to think it looks kind of cool. Unfortunately, my oldest son informed my wife this past weekend that he's sort of taken ownership of that particular guitar. Kids...I guess even they know good juju when they feel it. :) |
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Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | Paul c's is chandler.
they make good quality stuff. I would much rather have one of their pickguards than from the folks in fla. |
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February 2002
Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | What Al said! Chandler is the place to go for a hard to find replacement pickguard. They have an amazing number of templates, but aren't always perfect. I recently got one from them for a Hamer T-62, but had to have my tech tweak it in order for it to fit. The good news is that it was very close. |
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Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | Paul
I have many hamer daytona and t 51 pick guards in stock. I think hamer used a couple of sources for these they are are not always the same. |
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Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Al, Paul, et al-
So, we're thinking the pickguard on my newly acquired Viper is a replacement unit from Chandler, then, eh? That's kind of a bummer, as I'd rather have an 'original' one...then again, I'd rather have a replacement in one piece than an original with the jack ripped out. :)
For those following along at home, I managed to locate some 0000 steel wool and the ever elusive Flitz. Oh, and in lieu of the planned duct tape, I've decided to go with 3M bright red plastic tape on the fretboard and other no-no parts. Anyone see a problem with plastic tape? I doubt the Flitz will eat it, but I'll test it first. |
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January 2004
Posts: 648
Location: Florida | I'll throw my hat into the ring for the endorsement of Flitz - its GREAT.
Flitz actually is a very soft abrasive that breaks down quite easily (particles get smaller, finer with use on the rag). The result is a sort of self burnishing effect when the abrasive loads up. You can put a mirror shine on aluminum or stainless or brass, plastic... its all great. |
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Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | Al,
I'll remember you, should I need a Daytona or T51 pickguard. The T62 are rare, as you know, having only a single control through the p.g. |
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May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | YOU GUYS ROCK! Or is that rawk? I can never remember.
Anyway, I spent the evening working on Project Viper. I taped off the fretboard with the 3M red plastic tape, cut out the parts covering the frets and went to town with Flitz...a little goes a long way. It took off all the rust and oxidation, and they shine like a new car bumper again! Well, if cars still had chrome bumpers, that is.
That went so well that I pulled the pups out of the pickguard and took after the gunk and tarnish and rust and corrision on the chrome rings. Oddly enough, they both looked like aluminum instead of chrome before I started, but by the time I was done...ooh, look, something shiny! :)
And to think this started as an oops...I'm actually having fun with it. I think I'm going to get some of those Snake Oil Brand all nickel strings for the first chord.
Now, here's a question. I see the saddles adjust forward/back for intonation (compensation), no problem. But, the two big studs that the bridge sits on...are those strictly for action adjustment? And the screw from the back seems like it would lock the bridge in place if it were screwed all the way in. There's no whammy bar on this thing, so is the bridge *supposed* to be fully seated? |
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January 2003
Posts: 1498
Location: San Bernardino, California | Use the two large screws to adjust the action.
Use the smaller screw on the back of the guitar to get the main plate of the bridge parrallel to the strings. As you change it away from parrallel you'll change the radius formed by the bridge saddles. |
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March 2002
Posts: 1380
Location: Central Oregon | To protect moldings, bumper covers, etc. at the ol' body shop I put on a strip or two of 1 1/2" masking tape first, then put duct tape over that. Sometimes three or four layers. No goo, much more protection than plain masking tape.
/\/\/ |
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May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Bru-
So, I'm looking at the following, once everything is cleaned up and put back together...
1) Install strings and bring up to pitch
2) Adjust action using bridge posts
3) Adjust relief using truss rod
4) Make bridge parallel to plane of strings
5) Adjust intonation using saddles
6) Check it all again and repeat 2)-5) until done
Sound right? No pun intended... |
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May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | That's what I would do. Might have to spend time bouncing between step 2 and 3, until you get the string height just right. |
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Joined:
May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Well, tonight is the night to Flitz and finish the bridge assy. I'm hoping to have it strung up tonight, but I don't know how long the setup is going to take...hopefully not *too* long. Thanks to everyone for your help along the way. I'll put some pics up in the gallery...
Edited to corect a speling eror. |
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Joined:
May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | And now I have another question for Viper owners...I put my bridge back together, but the saddles don't want to sit flat on the bridge. I thought maybe they'd settle down once I got it strung up...no such luck. And I notice that the gap between D and G (in the very middle) is wider over the saddles than it is over the nut...the spacing between strings is, of course, fairly consistent at the nut, and betwee 1-2, 2-3, 4-5, 5-6, but between 3-4 it's wider.
I put the saddles back in the way I took them out. I'll attempt some ASCII art:
/ /neck that way
/ /
[] [] [ ] [ ] [] [] <--- saddles
| | | | | | \___ saddle screws
| | | | | | /
end pin here
The widest two saddles in the middle, the taller of the narrow saddles next, the shorter of the narrow saddles on the outside.
Is this right? Why would the distance between 3-4 strings be so much greater at the bridge than the nut...unless something is amiss in my rebuild. I am not happy. |
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Posts: 1498
Location: San Bernardino, California | I usually do it 1,3,2,4,5,6. But no big deal.
I would lubricate the height adjustment screws before re-assembling. I use teflon gel, but anything that doesn't migrate will work. Also if you put some sponge-rubber under the back of the bridge it's less of a PITA to change strings (if you do all of them at once).
Usually before installing the strings, I set the height of the bridge so that the top of the plate is even with the top of the pickguard and eyeball the back screw for being parrallel. Most of the time that's is fairly close to the right height.
Also there should be a ground clip that goes on the parrallel screw. |
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Joined:
May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Originally posted by BruDev:
I usually do it 1,3,2,4,5,6. But no big deal.
I would lubricate the height adjustment screws before re-assembling. I use teflon gel, but anything that doesn't migrate will work. Also if you put some sponge-rubber under the back of the bridge it's less of a PITA to change strings (if you do all of them at once).
Usually before installing the strings, I set the height of the bridge so that the top of the plate is even with the top of the pickguard and eyeball the back screw for being parrallel. Most of the time that's is fairly close to the right height.
Also there should be a ground clip that goes on the parrallel screw.
Check on the ground clip...the spring thing is nifty, noticed that when I did the tear down. :) I did the bridge height the same way you suggested. I was somewhat surprised that it didn't rotate forward much when the strings were brought up, but then again, that piece from the back isn't letting it go anywhere.
The big question is, do you mean:
1-3-2-4-5-6
as in skinny/low, fat, skinny/high, fat, skinny/high, skinny/low for the saddles? I didn't trim the strings down (they're just a set of D'Addario XLs I had laying around anyway, so they're not permanent) so I can pull them out and swap the saddles without problem. I think...
Thanks for the answers and help, though! |
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Joined:
January 2003
Posts: 1498
Location: San Bernardino, California | 1) tune to pitch
2) set relief
3) set action
4) set parralex
5) set intonation
6) repeat any and/or all steps as neccessary
Take two asprin and call me in the morning. |
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May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | What I meant before was spending time setting steps 2 and 3 before moving on to the rest. It takes longer than you think to get the string height "just right". |
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January 2003
Posts: 1498
Location: San Bernardino, California | Here's a couple of pictures of the bridge:
http://www.ovationfanclub.com/photos/BruDev_75460_viper%20bridge.jpg
http://www.ovationfanclub.com/photos/BruDev_75782_viper%20bridge%201.jpg |
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May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Bru, et al-
Thanks for all the help, suggestions, pictures, etc. I had a great time cleaning this thing up and getting it back together. Unfortunately, I've decided I need a Korg PXR4, and the boss lady says I have too much gear. =(
I've started bonding with the Viper, but last in, first out. It's actually really something different than any of my other gits...it'll go from a nice jazzy, mellow tone all the way to twangy telecaster, up to icepick in your ear Strat. I think it has the single most effective tone control I have ever seen/used. The suggestion to use Flitz was awesome...the frets are shiny and bright, the pickup rings are back to normal (for the most part) and the bridge is gunk-less again.
Thanks for all the help! |
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Joined:
May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Question on original knobs: Project Viper has amber Gibson-style speed knobs (the smooth kind, not bell shaped). In all the pic's I've seen of other Vipers, they have bell style, black knobs. If I want to put mine back to 'original' (haha), would the Gibson-style, coarse knurled pot knobs fit? Were the originals just plastic ones, or did they have the metal piece in the top (with the 'tone' and 'volume' printed on them? |
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August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Mine have the "tone" and "volume" imprinted. I assume you're using the term "metal" loosely ... it's actually plastic. ;) |
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Report on the Viper and restoration questions
