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Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3650
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | A thought crossed my mind (yeah, it's homeless), wondering if there is some optimal angle of declination for optimal resonance purposes. I was following the discussion of 12-string slotheads versus non-slotheads, and always thought the steeper angle of the slothead nut-to-roller contributed to the sustain and resonance characteristics. Is there credence in this, and some recommended limit on the angle? |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 782
Location: Waurika OK | To start off, I don't know, but:
The more "in line' it is, the tension on the headstock is straight against the neck. The greater the angle the more upward tension the strings will put on the end of the headstock.
Too much angle and you can't find a case to put it in. Also, too much angle and I would think you would need to use a roller nut as the strings would bind in a regular nut.
As with many things in life, probably a trade off between optimal and practical.
Just my thoughts.
noel |
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March 2002
Posts: 15677
Location: SoCal | This has been discussed in the past. You might want to do a search on it. O's originally had a much steeper peghead angle than they do now. There were breakage problems and they went to a much shallower angle. The LX steepens it some.
I seem to remember 11 degrees, 7 degrees, and 8 or 9 degrees as being what they had, what they went to, and what the LX's are. Can't remember for certain. |
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Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3650
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | When I reset the peghead on Ol' Faithful (60's neck)some years ago, I probably added in a couple more degrees. It has such a fine tone & action, I just wonder if I serendipitously (say that twice, fast!) improved its character. |
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January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | they started at 14*, went to 7*. Adamas is 10* The slothead is more with the strings lower but I'm not sure what it is.
7 isn't quite enough to get a good sound. 10 is better. not a noticable difference from 10 to 14. |
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Joined:
November 2004
Posts: 100
Location: Asheville, North Carolina | Headstock angle also plays an important role for string tension based upon scale length. As you know a decrease in headstock angle lessens tension while a longer scale length increases it. Changing angles on the Adamas was intentional to help move the stiffer man made tops, while the lesser angles are all that are needed to efficently move the inconsistently varied less stiff wooden tops. Therefore I don't agree that a steeper 10 degree angle is always better sounding than say a 7 degree. Angles more depend on design and materials. However there seems to be a consensus or a zone if you will. Too little with a short scale would be not a good thing and visa versa. Research shows that guitars have been built with angles from 5 degrees to approx. 20 degrees on some nylon stringed guitars over the years. However too much angle will increase tuning problems with steel stringed guitars. I believe I read Ovation started out with a steeper angle in the early days due to the bracing designs and thicker tops which I think have gotten lighter and thinner in the search for a louder more resonant acoustic tone. Ovation has done scientific R & D on guitar acoustics probably more than any other maker... they have always taken the hi-tech approach. That's why we love them...right :D |
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Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | I'd be willing to bet that the angle of the early Ovations is probably the same as Martins. It was changed to 7 because of peghead breakage. While I agree with the point of scale length and tension, all Ovations and adamii are the same, so we're back to 7 sucks and 10-14 is much better. |
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Joined:
November 2004
Posts: 100
Location: Asheville, North Carolina | Cwk2...My point is that no one can really say that one angle is better than another tone wise....in your first post you stated Adamas was 10...Did you mean to say all Ovations are 10 degrees *now* in your first post? While this may be true now....I'm not really sure? Thought I read in a trade article sometime back that the LX's angles were changed? headstock angles also use less wood as the angle lessen. There have and were different headstock angles between Adamas and Ovations and imported guitars in the past, as well as there were different fingerboard radiuses which I read have again been changed on the new LX designs. Also some guitars continue to come out of the old factory areas with older specs and designs. A friend of mine who is a working tech at Ovation has discussed in the past that Ovation had one of the fewest neck breakage issues in the industry because of their 5 ply design which adds considerable strength to the headstock. |
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Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3650
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Plus it looks cool! Thanks, Guys, this has been very informative! |
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Joined:
June 2004
Posts: 271
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida | I "found" my lost copy of "The Luthiers Handbook" by Roger Siminoff. He is considered the "Guru" of theory and science behind, most stringed instruments...
He claims 12 degrees maxs out the tone at the peghead...
AB |
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Joined:
November 2004
Posts: 100
Location: Asheville, North Carolina | Yes AB....I have read this as well....there are some problems once you start pushing 10 degrees with steel stringed guitars...There are some European makers who use a zero fret and feel steeper angles make for a louder guitar. Some flamenco guitars with *pegheads* from which the name originated...headstocks that used pegs and not mechanical tuners. That had 15 to as high as 18 degree angles. I think most modern makers use 7- 12 degrees these days. Recently in an effort save wood allot of makers are using headstock joints such as Taylor which causes them to use a less steep angle.. Taylor also claims it's finger joint is stronger than a one piece neck. In the past it was Martin who used the volute at the headstock joint. Today that diamond on the back of 28's and up is just for looks. Most imports are using laminated heels, headstocks and headstock side plates. All in an effort to use smaller pieces of wood. Personally I love Ovations 5 pcs. neck design. Always have and they are some ofthe most stable in the business. :cool: |
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Peghead Angle