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Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | I was talking to a guy yesterday about guitar soundboards. He was playing a guitar with a laminated spruce top, and he did not want to hear my opinion that solid top acoustic guitars sound better. That got me thinking what the OFC thinks about this. Has anyone in the group played a guitar with a laminated top that had a really good tone? I am talking about any make of guitar. The guy I was talking to sure didn't want to hear about solid vs. laminated tops. |
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Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | I have played several laminated top Ovations that have excellant tone! It is the sum of the parts and the design that make the difference. IMO the laminated tops are "set" and will not realize the aging that a solid top will incur. |
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Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | Rule of thumb, solid is superior top. But there ARE exceptions. I've got an adamas 12-string with an elite laminated curly maple top that sounds amazing. Dave |
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Location: NJ | I have played many laminated tops that were nice |
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Location: Converse, Texas | I have a Collectors 2000 panelmeister, and it sounds simply wonderful! I think stonebobbo will agree, since he has one too. |
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Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | I recently picked up a 5858 12 string that has a walnut top. Sounds very nice. |
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Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | I was browsing in a music store last week and came across a Celebrity 12 string. It had a laminated top and it sounded great. |
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Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | My 2002 Collectors has a laminated top and sounds very good, just as good as my 1777 Legend. In fact, there are some songs I would prefer to play on the 2002, it has a little more bottom-end.
Roger |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Each can sound good. It is the sum of the total guitar. Now if you're a complete acoustic snob it HAS to be solid and at least 16 annular rings per inch. But we know about those people, they don't like plastic very much either..... |
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Location: boulder | Hi,
Are the 2002 collectors edition really laminated? That is one of my favorite guitars. The neck is like an electric neck (designed that way). The african cherry is 3 dimensional and (imho)gorgeous. I will love this guitar no matter what, but now I am curious.
If it is laminated, anyone know how thick is the laminate? What is it laminated to?
Which reminds me, my friend said he took a guitar clinic with a man named Greg bennett, who according to my friend is A) a good guitar player, B)a guitar builder and C) a former designer for Ovation (during 1980's ?). This greg bennett said you could roll up the wood tops on an ovation becuase they are so thin. Does this sound right to anyone in the know? My friend was on valium for a surgery later that day, god only know why he called me. :) thanks mike |
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November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | The 2002 collectors does have a laminated top. It is african cherry/birch/african cherry. If you get a chance take of the rear cover and look in the guitar. The grain of the african cherry is beautiful. |
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Posts: 640
Location: boulder | thanks paul, I just took off cover. the front looks better to me, although the cherry inside is nice also.
So now I am wondering, which models are laminated and which are solid? (i know 2000 C.E. is laminate also, and stonebobbo and hizzoner love it.
Is it better for tone to keep some spruce or birch there? As I said I love my 2002 collectors edition, but I feel like somewhere Ovation could have been more honest about this. But I guess it's buyer beware for them also. sorry, I am a little bummed at this moment. I Think I will go play my 2002 and remember why I loved it unconditionally before this thread. thanks mike
--I'm just an idiot who doesn't even know what I'm buying. :) |
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Posts: 640
Location: boulder | hi again,
ok 2002 playing calmed me down. Also I was thinking, heck all three layers are wood, it will still age. Is my thinking correct? Will three wood laiminates age as a solid wood top would age? Maybe not the same exactly, but in general I mean. must go play some more thanks mike |
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Posts: 1673
Location: SoCal | The 2002 is beautiful and sounds great.
Our favorite acoustics have plastic backs and we feel that they sound better than any "all wood" guitar.
If the top of a great sounding guitar is laminated or not solid spruce, does it matter? Look at the Adamis.
In the case of exotic wood tops, laminating allows the designer to use woods that would not work well otherwise. |
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Posts: 1380
Location: Central Oregon | My (Paul's old) 2002 is played as much as the rest of my guitars put together. Usually unplugged. It has it's own sound, as do each of the others. It plays excellent, sounds good & looks stunning. If you want a 'solid top O sound' just buy another one to go with it. You're going to eventually anyway. :)
(You might try a 1612, they sound great & they're pretty reasonably priced on the bay.)
Btw, my ES-175 has a laminated top too & it sounds pretty decent, even unplugged. |
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Posts: 146
Location: Germantown, MD | CWK II wrote awhile back about what went into developing some of the laminated tops--varying the angles at which the grain on the layers crossed, types of wooks, adhesives, and so on. I'm guessing that this gives laminated tops a great deal of consistency from one instrument to another coming out of the box, and the stability over time has already been mentioned. |
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Posts: 1071
Location: Carle Place, NY | Stability and consistency are nothing if the guitar sounds inferior. There's a good reason that the best guitars have solid wood. It sounds better, plain and simple. Some of the fancier laminated top Ovations cost as much as a simple solid wood top guitar. Maybe I'm brainwashed to the idea, but I'll take a solid wood top any day over anything laminated, except an Adamas. |
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Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | Hmmmm... Interesting challange. How about a Redwood collectors vs. a standard balladeer. I don't own either, so I have no vested interest to brag about "my" guitar. But I've played the redwood and it's freaking amazing. The balladeer is just standard. There are "rules of thumb" and then there are "exceptions". I'm a total snob and basically turn my nose up at anything that isn't solid wood. Better yet if it's got wood sides and back. But I'm also smart enough to know that the exceptions can come and bite you in the ass if you're not careful. |
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Location: SoCal | Dave,
Are you saying the Balladeer las a laminated top? |
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Posts: 15682
Location: SoCal | Actually, sounds like Dave's saying that he turns his nose up at anything that doesn't have a wood back and sides. Or did I read that wrong? |
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Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | What I said (or tried to say) was that life is full of exceptions. In general I prefer a wooden box guitar to a non-wooden box guitar (CA, Rainsong, etc.). But there are exceptions - Ovation is that exception. Same with solid tops. In general I prefer solid tops vs. laminated tops. But there are exceptions. The curly walnut for example. We as Ovation fans have demonstrated the ability to be open minded about bowls, so why not open minded about laminated tops? I've heard some damn good ones. Also heard some really shitty ones. |
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Location: SoCal | but I feel like somewhere Ovation could have been more honest about this
The 2002 was never represented as a solid top...as previously discussed, some unique woods do not allow a solid top (either cost or lack of tonal quality.) The Collector's series, from what I have been told, is to push the envelope.
The 2002 is a beautiful, yet great playing guitar.
play it, like it, take it home, enjoy... |
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November 2002
Posts: 1196
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | I think the longer I play guitar, the more one thing matters to me. How does it sound? There are good and bad guitars out there made about every way we can imagine. Sound is what matters, not every little detail of the guitars construction. I played a Yamaha compass series guitar last weekend that a young fellow brought to church to show me. It was a wonderful sounding guitar, and I found out buy looking at the Yamaha website that it has a laminated top. I had no idea, all I noticed was that it sounded great, and the owner of the guitar could not be happier. That is what its all about. If you love your guitar, who cares how its top, back or sides are made. I am lucky in that I get to play in front of thousands of people every weekend at church. The question I get asked the most is what guitar should I get, or a parent will ask me what guitar I think their child would like. I tell them there is no answer for that. There are good and bad guitars in all price ranges. |
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Posts: 640
Location: boulder | Hi all,
Tony, you are right, Ovation never said it was a solid top. I just assumed for over a thousand dollars I was getting what I believed was a higher quality top. That in retrospect is my mistake. If it was a concern, I should have asked before buying.
But honestly, I am not sure where ovation tells prospective buyers what is actually there. (and this is my rant and rage against both O and A websites- i.e. lack of info, I appreciate what is there, just want more)
In my opinion, doing whatever it takes to make a beautiful instrument that sounds as good as the 2002, should be a selling point. If laminating African cherry is cutting edge, Ovation should use it as a selling point. Ovation never stated this was a solid top, I just never heard/read that it was any thing but a one piece solid top, so that unsettled me a bit.
I see both sides of this debate. Solid wood tops are more preferred, but we hear with our ears. Guitars like people, they can only be who they are. I mean I don't dislike adamas because they use a laminate formation.
I mean, after thinking about it. I like the cutting edge philosophy angle. I loved this guitar yesterday. I love it right now and I think I will love it in 20 years. If getting an O with african cherry means, it has to come in thin strips and glued/epoxied together, so be it. It looks great and sounds great and plays easy in my hands. If it sounds good/plays good, well that's the ballgame. thanks Paul and tony, sorry if I was whining earlier. gotta go play my new panel meister now, peace from boulder mike |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | I have played for years and have had some laminated instruments that sounded fine, and have played with musicians who play laminated guitars and their guitars sounded fine. I have some solid wood instruments and they each have their own sound, but it only stands out in setting at home and jamming and, maybe, in recording situations where the nuances can be heard, on stage, I think laminates are fine as usually you are wailing at top volume where nuances are not important unless you are sitting in the corner in a coffee shop playing for those who can't hear the music but want to discuss the intellectual meaning, that is they have no use for musicians as they are the stars in that mileau and the guy with the guitar is like a wall hanging that they can show their artistic superiority as they discuss it.
CWKII, I joke about plastic but I have been a Plastic fan of Ovations and Corvettes for almost 50 years.
:cool: :D :p |
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January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Sam made the comment about plastic somewhere else here recently
The changing of the grain was only on Adamas tops. Wood laminated tops usually have the top and bottom layers of the same material and going the same direction. The center is 90 degrees to it.
Greg Bennett was a salesman when with Kaman. Peroid. He started with Washburn and really did alot helping launch them, bounced around some and then with Kaman and then bounced around some more and now has this gig with Samick or what ever that foreign factory is. He's a nice enough guy, wish him well on this gig, however long it lasts. |
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Posts: 555
Location: Wooster, Ohio | When it comes to playing electrically do not laminated soundboards sound just as good? I have a very good solid top 1993 collectors and I really think my laminated ovation sounds better plugged in. It is certainly easier to control. Once amplified I think the differences would be very subtle.
Steve |
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December 2003
Posts: 1071
Location: Carle Place, NY | OK, maybe there are some Collector's Edition O's with laminated redwoood, walnut, etc, that sound great, but I still prefer solid wood tops.
I did once play a Martin ALternative guitar with an aluminum top and I was quite surprised that it sounded like a wood guitar. But then again it was solid aluminum. :D |
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Location: NJ | Minor Point:
The redwood Collector's IS a solid top. . . . |
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April 2003
Posts: 2503
Location: Fayetteville, NC | If it sounds good to you it really shouldn't matter whether it's Solid or Laminate. Does the guitar speak to you, Do you like how it pays and sound to your ear? Those are subjective questions only one person can answer. The Guitar player. Ovation has done a pretty good job identifying tops in their printed material. If the Instrument Specs state Solid For the top Then it's solid, If it just says Spruce, Then it's laminate. in other words they identify the tops as Either Solid spruce or Spruce.
remember though, and it has been stated already in this thread, Play the guitar and listen for yourself, If it moves you and you like it then buy it and make it your own. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I think the walnut, bubinga, lacewood and cherry are the laminated ones. Dave |
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December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | For what it's worth, isn't comparing solid and laminate tops like comparing apples and beans? After you get out of the "cheap" laminate rhealm, some tops work better as laminates and some don't. The graphite tops are laminate aren't they? I would think some woods wood benefit in stablility and tone by being laminated while others would not. In other words, there are crappy sounding solid tops, and fantastic sounding ply tops and vs versa. When you get the right combination of either, you get a great top and great sounding guitar. |
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Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | I agree with Miles. Comparing solid to laminate is two different beasts. There's crappy examples of both. |
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Can a laminated top sound good?